‘I was speaking up in high-pressure environments, in meetings, trying to make an impact.’

It was difficult because you’re spending 23 hours a day by yourself. I’m cool with being by myself, but you’ve got to dig deep and look inward.

I saw a lot in there. I heard a lot. And I had to basically tell myself: that’s it now, whatever time they’re gonna give you, you better make sure when you come out, you’re going to fix up, because I ain’t coming back here again.

I turned 19 on the 14th September and I got my sentence on the 16th. Initially it was much longer, but we ended up appealing and got down to six years and eight months, I ended up serving three years.

So from 18 to 21, I was in a headspace of like, you’ve got to improve now, you’ve got to fix up, you got to write down what’s going on in your head, make plans.

When you come home, make sure you’re moving official and proper. And whatever you do, whatever you fall into, just give it 100% and see where it
takes you.

And, actually, it was in prison that you got that new start, wasn’t it?

It was. I met two people who changed my life.

I was moved to a prison in South East London called Isis and I was there for two and a half years. 

It was very, very, very violent. It was recorded as the most violent prison in the country while I was there. It was crazy.

But I met these guys called Jason Mitchell and Chris Chalaye who were in the music production and radio broadcasting courses.

They really took time with me, they supported me. But my headspace was a lot different to what it is now. I was a completely different person.

I didn’t want to hear anything, you know, no one could tell me anything. I was just like, ‘No, I’m here, I’m going to get on with what I need to get on with it – F it’.

But they stuck with me, they told me I needed to change the way I was thinking – and eventually I opened up to them a lot more. They became mentors more
than teachers.

Then Jason brought in DJ Target, which was another eye-opener for me. He [Target] didn’t have to do that, he knew what he was stepping into; it wasn’t a very safe environment. And he was just super cool. We spoke about everything.

Eventually he said, ‘When you come home, we need to link up’. The next thing that happened was Doreen Lawrence wrote to me – bless her, and Rest In Peace to Stephen every time. She said she’d been hearing great things and that she wants to give me the opportunity to be one of the interns on the Stephen Lawrence programme when I get released.

That became something I really wanted to concentrate on. So I stopped the fighting, I stopped all the madness that I was doing in there, and I focused on that. I put all my energy into making sure when I come home, I got that locked in, which I did.

Tell us what happened when you got released?

It was quite weird at the beginning. I missed the boys I got close with in there, they were like family to me.

But I knew that chapter had to close. Now it’s all about levelling up and being grateful to Doreen and the BBC for taking a risk on someone who’s going to be on probation for another three or four years. They gave me an opportunity to learn and network and be in this corporate environment, which I had zero experience with. It was a different world to me completely, a culture shock.

The Stephen Lawrence internship led to a year-long apprenticeship scheme at the BBC, which was paid. That put me in different rooms, and I ended up really excelling there.

I worked with Panorama on a documentary and a BAFTA-winning film called Don’t Take My Baby, I was working with BBC 3, The One Show – but I wanted to get back into music.

Luckily, I bumped into DJ Target outside Oxford Circus station. I told him what I was doing and he took me into 1Xtra and introduced me to everyone, including Austin Daboh. We all got on straight away, and Austin asked me to finish my apprenticeship at 1Xtra – and said there’d be a job at the end of it. I’m forever grateful to all those guys.

What sort of things did you learn from Austin and the team and how important was their support?

I can’t even put it into words. I was still local, still around all my friends and things were happening. I was away from that, but still part of it.

I remember one time me and Austin went for a walk around Central London for an hour. He was just speaking positive things into me, really giving me that energy. He was saying, ‘Look, you can do whatever you put your mind to, you don’t have to go back to that. And I can see that you’re stressing about one or two things, but I can also see you’re incredibly energised about being here, so whatever I can help you with, I’ll help you.’

“These people remind me, ‘Nah, you didn’t fluke it, you deserve to be at this table’.”

Target was the same, Sarah-Jane Crawford was the same. There were so many great people who had my back. That gave me confidence and made me feel really good about myself.

I wanted to make them proud. I still want to make them proud. Because although I’m 31 now, I still feel at times that I shouldn’t be here because I kind of fluked it. But these people remind me, ‘Nah, you didn’t fluke it, you made the right decisions, you put the work in, you deserve to be at this table’.

How do you feel about that now? Because you’ve mentioned your self-worth issue before, so do you feel you deserve a seat at the table?

I do and I don’t. I feel I deserve a seat because I did put the hours in. I did a lot that other people weren’t necessarily doing. I was networking with everybody. I was really taking the time to meet everyone on a personal level, and adding value through my ideas. I was speaking up in certain high-pressure environments, in meetings, trying to make an impact.

But then the other half of it is that I still have that thing in my head where I’m just this young guy from West Ealing, and maybe I don’t know what these guys are talking about, maybe this isn’t for me, maybe that role isn’t for me. There’s that little bit of self-doubt.

But I think 90% of me feels I am ready to level-up in different areas and be present. If you asked me a few years ago, I would have been bit more shaky at times. It’s a journey.

At what point did you start thinking about wanting to give back? And what prompted that?

Let me just rewind just a little bit. I was working with a woman called Tamara Howe at the BBC in Business Affairs and Commissioning when I was a young guy fresh out of prison.

She was this woman of colour who was just a boss. She brought her own energy into every room. In Business Affairs and Commissioning, as you can imagine everyone’s middle-aged and white.

So I’m in there with my Jordans and my hoodie, feeling way, way out of my depth, but just listening and learning.

On my lunch breaks, I used to write a lot of lyrics and, you know, make music in my head. One day, Tamara pulled me to one side and said, ‘Travis, every time I see you on your lunch break, you’re sitting in a corner, you’re writing bars. If you’ve got an interest in music, you should chase that and not necessarily be in TV.’

But I told her I was grateful to be there, grateful to Doreen and the opportunity she’d given me. I wanted to do the honourable thing.

But she persisted. She said, ‘I’m gonna get my brother to speak to you, because I really like you and I think you’re gonna have a bright future.’

I get a phone call two or three days later, and it’s someone called Darcus. I’ve got no idea who that is! I don’t recognise the number or the name. He is straight away just a ball of energy. He tells me he wants to meet me, goes off on a tangent for 30 seconds and then hangs up!

I’m like, who is this guy, calling my phone, speaking really loudly and aggressively, but in a positive way?!

About an hour later I get an email from his assistant saying Darcus really wants to see you, come down to High Street Kensington.

At this point I Google him, and I’m like, wow! He worked with Amy and he’s the president of Island. I’m heading to the big leagues!

I meet him, he’s all energy, he made me feel super comfortable and relaxed. I played him some music, he really liked my ear – and he wanted to give me a job as an A&R.

Again though, I said I can’t turn my back on the BBC, I can’t turn my back on Doreen, just allow it for now and perhaps in the future we can do something. He totally respected that.

Fast forward to when I left 1Xtra, at the same time as Austin left to join Spotify. I had got an email from Sony offering me an A&R internship. I asked Benny (Scarrs) and Austin about it, because I wasn’t really sure what A&R was, and they both said take it, this is a great opportunity for you.

So I took the interview, and big-up Dougie Bruce [then MD of Epic], the first guy who gave me an opportunity in music, super-grateful to him forever.

It started as an internship, but he gave me the job after three months. He said, ‘Don’t worry, you’re here now’.

I cried in the car when I got that phone call. Because I felt like I was so far removed from where I was. I shed a tear because I was so happy.

What happened next for you?

I was at Epic for a year, but then my world kind of got flipped on its head. The gaffer got relieved of his duties. Mr Iley was definitely moving things around in 2016, put it that way.

I was in limbo. I felt a lot of pressure and I was just very frustrated.

I spoke to my mentor, Danny Cohen, and he was upset about the situation. He said, ‘Look, I’m going to introduce you to a few people, just see how it goes’.

From there, I got an email from David Joseph. Again, I didn’t really know who David Joseph was. I knew who the A&R guys were, the managers, booking agents, lawyers, but I was still very, very green. But David hit me up and said, ‘You’ve come highly recommended. I want to spend some time with you and just have a chat.’

And then I had an email from Max Lousada, who said the same thing! So now it’s going from me trying to get a job back in the industry to this! Man, you know how the game goes [laughs].

Both those guys are real gentlemen, genuine love and time for them. I ended up going to Polydor. Big-up to Ben Mortimer and Tom March, they gave me a great opportunity and I was super grateful to be in a space where the label and the team was much bigger than at Epic.

I had a great time there, semi-frustrated with a few things, a few acts I brought in and didn’t get to sign, but it’s all love man, your time comes when your time comes. And Polydor is still one of the best labels in the country, hands down.

Char Grant was at Modest! Management and they reached out to me. Ben didn’t want me to leave, but I knew I’d get to learn about publishing, about management, you know, it was a new journey for me.

So I took that opportunity and that was dope. But Char, man, she left me in the lurch, I can’t lie [laughs]! She left to join BMG and she was my big sis, I wanted to work with her.

I really enjoyed working at Modest!, but again, the vision didn’t necessarily align completely. I was trying to sign Jae5 and Nafe Smallz, and they were still very much in the pop space.

So I took a bit of a break, did some travelling, spent more time with my son and started thinking about creating a future.

When I got back, myself and Ashley Cox, who manages Aston Rudi, Tamera and Owen Cutts, we sat down together and came up with THE FUTURE IS. 

This is something people should know more about, so explain the concept for us.

The original idea was to start putting on club nights, just showcasing talent that we like, because we both have a really good eye for spotting talent really early.

But then I thought, why don’t we aim for something between ILoveLive and the Ultimate Seminar. And that’s how it started.

The first one we ever did was at the Hospital Club. I put together a panel that had some amazing people on it: Rachel Campbell (Wired PR – Stormzy, Central Cee, Jorja Smith), Lucy Francis (17Days Music – Jessica Agombar, GG Stök, etc.), Jasmine Dotiwala, Sarah T Smith (manager of Fraser T Smith) and Milly Allen (0207 Def Jam).

It was called THE FUTURE IS Female, because so many talented women were coming through at the time and we wanted to highlight that.

It really blew up and took off. Ashley wanted to focus more on the management space, but I ended up putting on more events. It was a real snowball effect.

We worked with the Royal Albert Hall, we worked with Black Music Coalition, TikTok, Nike… Most of the people on the panels have been people of colour, and that’s very deliberate. Because there are so many great people in this industry who look like me and look like you, but not many people know who they are.

It has been a serious blessing for me and I can’t wait to share with the world all the things we’ve been secretly working on for the last six months.

What are the specific tools you’re arming them with to set about this business?

I guess there’s two sides to that. The first side would be just to give them an avenue, somewhere to go where they can learn from the real ones in the industry. And then that marries well, with celebrating those who are the real ones in the industry.

I got into the industry super-green and late. I had no idea what A&R was. So I wish I’d had something like this. People come and spend their own time and talk about their journey and their stories, the things you should do and things you probably shouldn’t do. And it’s been incredible.

Along the way, I wanted to create a writing camp for all the performers that we’ve had at the events and, through that, they get to work with more established writers and producers.

“I got into the industry super-green, so I wish I’d had something like this.”

I reached out to a bunch of different studios, and they were just stringing me along, telling me what I wanted to hear, but not giving me dates and times.

And then I got connected with Alys [Gibson], who works down at Church Studios, and she – along with Paul Epworth – has just been incredible.

We’ve done a few writing camps together and there’s good things happening. People are getting signed, there’s connections being made. It just feels like the right thing to do and keep doing, giving people opportunities.

Motown reached out, Rob [Pascoe] hit me up and said, ‘I love what you’re doing, let’s do it together’. David Joseph knows about it, all of these cool things are happening.

Where do you go next?

I want to take it to a bigger stage – more seats, bigger venues, amplify the vision. We’ll just keep pushing it bit by bit.

What about you, your own career?

I think just to keep moving in the right direction, keep levelling up. I want to keep on developing my skills. I’ve met so many great people, I’m going to maybe look into getting back into A&R in a little bit. It depends on the role. It has to be a bit flexible, because I don’t want to stop working with THE FUTURE IS and building that.

This interview is taken from a brilliant podcast series, Did Ya Know?, which tells the often unheard stories of key figures in the British music industry, focusing initially on pioneering executives of colour. The team behind the pod includes Stellar Songs co-founder Danny D and Decisive Management co-founder Adrian Sykes. Music Business Worldwide is proud to be partners and supporters of Did Ya Know? You can listen to it wherever you find your favourite podcasts.Music Business Worldwide