Sir Lucian Grainge: ‘Everyone that works for me has to be able to count, and they have to be able to say no.’
Sometimes industry Q&AThe interesting thing is not knowing who is being interviewed. Sometimes they are interesting because of what is said.
And sometimes, as was the case today (February 9), they extremely interesting because who is asking the question.
Sir Lucian GraingePresident and CEO of Popular music group (UMG), was asked earlier today at Pershing Square Holdings’ annual investor conference by someone he will become well acquainted with.
Pershing Square, we need to remind you, is an investment institution run by billionaire Bill Ackman that, since the summer of 2021, has own a slice of 10% by UMG.
In recent times, Ackman has predicted that Universal might repeated points 10% increase in annual sales over the next decade, as well as repeatedly expressing his respect for Grainge and his senior team.
Today at the PSH conference in Knightsbridge, London, Grainge was asked live onstage by Ackman himself, who promised a “free discussion” that would shed light on “Wall Street things”.
The duo made that commitment.
There was little financial conversation between the two executives, and Grainge didn’t volunteer to provide too many details when asked by Ackman about how/whether Universal plans to make more revenue from TikTok (UMG). is a pre-earnings call, so Grainge was careful not to make “forward-looking statements”).
However, there have been some revelations about Grainge’s story, ideology, and career – as well as a brief but interesting conversation about the potential impact of AI on the music industry.
Ackman has expressed his admiration for Grainge’s accomplishments from the beginning, telling the PSH audience that the British music executive “is probably one of the only two icons I’ve had the chance to do. work as an investor”.
Here are three highlights from the discussion.
1) It’s all about hitting and running
When Sir Lucian Grainge was 13 years old, growing up in North London, he was riding his bike outside and was hit by a lorry driver. The truck driver sped away, but Grainge’s father – who owned a record store – was determined to track him down.
Senior Grainge did just that; he hired a lawyer and sued the individual behind the wheel. As a result, junior Grainge was awarded £4,000 in compensation – a decent amount for any teenager in the mid-70s.
The current music executive gave his father half of the money to buy a car, but used the rest to finance both his own transportation (an old Mini), as well as taking the first step into the field of music management.
“I got into a situation with recording engineers,” says Grainge. “Well, they’re not really recording engineers. They are the ones who put the 2 inch tape on multitracks [in the studio]; and, really, they’re the ones who will order pizza for the musicians.
However, these individuals have the keys to the recording studio – meaning Grainge can surreptitiously perform acts in the dark to record performances throughout the night “until the cleaners arrive at 5 a.m”.
“Really, they are the ones who will order pizza for the musicians.”
“We are the big players [as a result],” says Grainge, “because we have access to time on set, and on those days if you have access to time on set, then you are God.”
Grainge became the manager of two Australian writers (seems like: John Vallins and Nat Kipner) who were behind Johnny Mathis’ No.1 hit (Too Much, Too Little, Too Late).
From there, Grainge built a “miniature network”, developed in part at intermediary conference in Cannes (where a teenager Grainge, who had never drunk alcohol, would sip lemonade and water throughout the evening at the famous Martinez to keep his expenses down).
Eventually, Grainge began calling many of the UK’s record company bosses from the payphone from his father’s shop, to ask for a job.
The then-president of CBS Records UK, Maurice Oberstein, mandated and gave Grainge the first paid role in the music business – as a talent scout in his publishing company. CBS.
The famous Grainge’s first signing was The Psychedelic Furs.
2) “I panicked when I took an aspirin…”
Speaking with Ackman, Grainge bypassed the rising ranks of Universal Music Group, including his successful stint as head of UK label Polydor, as well as head of the Universal Music’s UK and international operations.
Grainge also discusses the consequences of the fateful year 2011: The year that Spotify debuted in the US, and was the year that Universal – under its new CEO, Grainge – conducted a successful bid to acquire its major rival record company, EMI Music.
But perhaps the most interesting part of Grainge’s discussion with Ackman were the British music executive’s observations about himself and the culture he has nurtured within UMG over the years.
Ackman asked Grainge how he could switch between meetings with the Prime Minister and top investors to meet superstar artists and musicians, or Daniel Ekon the same day.
All of these characters have a “strong sense of self,” noted Ackman, who asked, “How do you create it? [each of them] feel good leaving the room?
Grainge replied that he was “misconnected and cross-brained”, which allowed for an unusual relationship between his own “left brain” and his own “right brain”.
He continued: “I freak out when I have to take an aspirin and I never drink alcohol, but I can have fun with talents and artists, and I can connect with people. [them]… I love characters, I love people who think for themselves, [and] I love supporting people.
“We must be an organization of great men… [but] everyone who works for me must be able to count and they must be able to say no.”
On the other hand, Grainge points out that his mother is an accountant (aka business executive) and he has inherited some of those skills: “I can say no, and I can count! “
Grainge points out that a combination of numerical and creative thinking is something he looks for in all of his senior executives.
“You need to be able to talk about costs and P&L, how well we are running the business,” he said. “[But] that is completely uninterested in the artist community. They want to know that they will be supported, insured and invested in. And ‘investment’ comes in two forms: Not only in terms of risk, but also capital to make, to [do] work, marketing [music]to create short form content, to make videos [etc.].”
Grainge noted Universal Music Group’s determination to keep its global operations “extremely decentralized”.
This model has been reinforced through a multi-brand structure in many of the countries where UMG operates, he said. (And it operates in many countries: According to Grainge, UMG is active in 200 markets and is “present” in more than 70.)
When Ackman suggested that it might be thanks to Grainge that Billie Eilish signed with Universal, Grainge replied: “I didn’t sign Billie Eilish; the guys at Interscope signed Billie Eilish. But I brought those people in, and [those people] is what makes Interscope so great.”
“I hope that our culture, the culture of invention, will retain entrepreneurs,” he continued. [like that] in company. And culturally, they want to be with us and keep doing what they do.
“We must be an organization of great men… [but] everyone who works for me must be able to count and they must be able to say no.”
3) Is AI a threat – or an opportunity?
Early in Grainge’s conversation with Ackman, the Universal boss pointed out: “Whenever there’s any disruption in the music, the sound, or in the technology, someone is somewhere in the incumbents feel apprehensive about it. And I have never [that way]. I have never been afraid of change.”
The topic came up again later, when Ackman asked Grainge about the potential threat to the music business from generalized AI.
Regarding ChatGPT specifically, Ackman asked: “Can ChatGPT write a potem; it can write lyrics. Is this a tool that artists will use to enhance the quality of their music? Or is it a threat of disruption?”
“If [AI] can help individuals improve – but without sacrificing quality or authenticity – I am very open about that.”
Grainge replied: “That is a very good question. I am very aware of [the debat around AI].”
However, Grainge argues that his natural position, again, is to embrace rather than fear.
He compares the current wave of next-generation AI tools with the advent of polyphonic synthesizers in music – “with two hands, you can play the work of an orchestra of 40 musicians… and have There’s panic.”
In short, Grainge said: “If [AI] can help individuals improve – but without sacrificing quality or authenticity – I am very open about that.”Global Music Business
